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Xi calls Zelenskyy; says China ready to act as mediator in Russia's war with Ukraine

84 Comments
By JOE McDONALD

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The powers-that-be don’t want the war to end, countless billions are being made off the lives of those being killed.

-11 ( +9 / -20 )

meh red herring...where Xi is involved, being shafted is a certainty.

8 ( +15 / -7 )

Bronco

Zelenskyy earlier said he welcomed a Chinese offer to mediate.

Well this is a sharp turn from "I refuse to make peace while Putin is in power" and "I'll never stop fighting until Crimea is returned to me"

How so? There is nothing to suggest that those aren't still his conditions.

The reality on the ground is very different from the "demoralized Russian conscripts with shovels are fleeing their positions" narrative the western media has spewed.

Nope. That's still true. Except the fact that the media never said that they only had shovels.

Zelensky's forces are on the verge of collapse and he knows it as is about to accept the loss of the 5 provinces to their Russian speaking inhabitants.

Umm, no. They are about to go on a counteroffensive.

10 ( +16 / -6 )

Millennia

-9 ( +2 / -11 )

Zelenskyy needs a realists voice in his ear. Xi is just the man he needs.

-15 ( +6 / -21 )

There's a marked difference between China's approach to mediating deals between hostiles and America's approach.

America decides which side to support based on domestic politics and which side will allow the US to dictate its foreign policies and trade deals, then gives it weapons, money, and impunity while blocking the other side from weapons, money, and trying to stage kangaroo court trials against its leadership until it surrenders everything.

China looks at what each side could realistically obtain militarily, and suggests negotiations should start with those as settled matters, and everything else up for discussion.

-15 ( +5 / -20 )

Zelenskyy needs a realists voice in his ear. Xi is just the man he needs.

“Russia’s got these nine dashes. You see here?”

10 ( +14 / -4 )

China looks at what each side could realistically obtain militarily, and suggests negotiations should start with those as settled matters, and everything else up for discussion.

If the US invaded Mexico and decided it wanted to keep a couple of the northern states as a buffer, do you think China would be advising Mexico to just accept their fate?

12 ( +17 / -5 )

Also, any comments on being dead wrong about Finland joining NATO? Or not today?

6 ( +11 / -5 )

Danger looms...

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Strange that after over a year, Xi is passing himself off as a great peacemaker communicating with Ukraine. It took him long enough, maybe that was because of his cozy relations with Russia.

Still, any peace is good peace, however, Ukraine must be very careful of a peacemaker who is in Putin's corner.

11 ( +14 / -3 )

Naive

-16 ( +1 / -17 )

Beijing will send an envoy to Ukraine to discuss a possible “political settlement” to Russia’s war with the country.

"Russia's war", but if China is in fact sending material to support Russia's war, then isn't it also China's war. Are the CCP eying properties in Crimea to build resorts so they can invest in property there and elsewhere in the area? What else, perhaps grain and shipping ports, are China's predatory capitalists looking to profit from in Ukraine? Vultures gonna vulture after all.

9 ( +11 / -2 )

Google Earth/Maps now shows Mariupol how it looked in March 2022. Sickening, this Russkiy Mir.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

The Chinese ambassador to France let the cat out of the bag when saying ex-Soviet republics aren't sovereign states.

That's how China sees Taiwan.

I agree with Elizabeth Wishnick who thinks this is just an exercise in China fixing up a glaring example of their world view.

9 ( +12 / -3 )

Also, any comments on being dead wrong about Finland joining NATO?

...give it time. If you were Russia (ie not even Putin), what would you be thinking right now? This is not dissimilar to China taking its aggression right up to the border of Taiwan.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Ultimately China is not a stakeholder for peace, given it has said ut is a strategic partner of Russia. What's not clear about being a strategic partner?

Or put it another way, a strategic partner means where Russia gains China gains. I would even go so far as to say that where Russia gain, CCP gain, but Chinese people looses.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

Sh1mon M4sada - I was addressing Bronco who made previous assertions that Finland would never join NATO, but now that they have, he doesn't want to talk about it.

8 ( +11 / -3 )

China seems like the only country the world can trust.

-11 ( +2 / -13 )

A "mediator" works when both sides of a conflict who do not tust each other, trust a third party.

China still refuses to recognize that Russia has invaded Ukraine and that the war is the result of NATO.

China still refuses to denounce Russia's invasion since they plan to invade Taiwan themselves

So how does Ukraine trust China?

6 ( +10 / -4 )

RodneyToday  08:56 am JST

China seems like the only country the world can trust.

Bingo, how do trust US Govt. run by unknown people 'handling' Biden?

US NATO proxy war machine's destabilized entire world, Xi's the BIG winner!

His Mid-East Peace just month, Saudi Iran reproachment, not WORD in our media, silence deafening, meanwhile we have 'crew' in US intent on trying to highjack Kremlin!

-11 ( +2 / -13 )

Should be clear to all, SOME here have Ukraine War 'BOJ funding' agenda, hence mainstream media transparency on hard Ukrainian intel leaked, not NEEDED!

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

Watch out Wagner:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1651094416885415936

4 ( +6 / -2 )

so why is China acting as a mediator and not the USA?

-6 ( +5 / -11 )

When you have two boxers in the ring, there is need for a referee. One of the roles of a referee is to determine when one fighter's health will be endangered by more blows, and thus, stops the fight.

Up until now, most here are caught up and more interested in who is winning the fight. There is propaganda on both sides, leaked information and perceived leaked information that is fake.

Putting aside who is really winning for a moment, we see that Xi taking initiative to call Zelenskyy and Zelenskyy's willingness to have dialogue signal we are closer to a round where the fight needs to be stopped.

Judging by the Shanghai Communique in 1972 with Nixon, Kissinger, Zhou and Mao, it is clear which side was winning and which side was going to lose. If you were winning, you would not give up so much, as much as all your military personell and bases in Taiwan. If you were losing, you no doubt would have to make concessions, including recognizing the One China policy and kicking Taiwan out of the UN. That said, it was brokered with gains on both sides leading to the Paris Agreement Treaty in 1973.

We will soon know who is actually winning or losing in the Ukraine War by the peace plan or terms of the cease fire China brokers. If both fighters wish to carry on, then agreement won't be reached needless to say, but the US is losing interest and Europe does not wish to continue to suffer economically. It would be good to avoid a situation where there is no referee and the fight carries on for years. For that the world should get behind the peace talks in the near future.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

More Wagners in Bakhmut having a bad day:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1651314177732931584

6 ( +9 / -3 )

War is good for American business, trade is good for Chinese business. Its about time somebody tried to put an end to the bloodshed.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

Mr. Xi's NOT fan of corruption or corrupt people - his record's CLEAR on such matters and probably one reason he's kept largely an arm's length position on this Ukraine war.

Most people believe Xi sees STRONG parallels with Taiwan being massively armed and supported by US akin to Ukraine, that's no secret. Suspect he has lots of Taiwan sources.

When policies by design lack transparency and contain known corruption, safe to assume risky course being pursued that will probably not produce great outcome(s).

-9 ( +0 / -9 )

Blacklabel

so why is China acting as a mediator and not the USA?

You already know the answer. Because the US is supporting Ukraine.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

China seems to think they have a reputation of being disinterested in this invasion. Their govt news is pretty clear they are behind Russia.

I'd rather see almost any South American country acting as mediator. Someone truly disinterested, unlike China.

Europe and the US wouldn't seem like disinterested parties with all the subsidized support provided to Ukraine. Neither would any former Soviet country, not any country too tied to Beijing or the US. That leaves few left on the sidelines without any interest either way.

Xi and the CCP are making too much money from Russia in this invasion to really want it to end. They are not disinterested.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

Up until now, most here are caught up and more interested in who is winning the fight. There is propaganda on both sides

Agreed Ukraine wars resulted in unprecedented Govt. media control & propaganda.

Too much at stake, transparency's BEST way to shape public opinion, especially intel from young kid with NO profit or power Agenda.

Thus, legit journalism using actual leaked intel carries serious weight, please read.

Salon

Leaked papers reveal reality behind Ukraine war propaganda — and it's grim

Story by Medea Benjamin & Nicolas J.S. Davies

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

theFuToday  10:20 am JST

China seems to think they have a reputation of being disinterested in this invasion. Their govt news is pretty clear they are behind Russia.

I'd rather see almost any South American country acting as mediator. Someone truly disinterested, unlike China.

Europe and the US wouldn't seem like disinterested parties with all the subsidized support provided to Ukraine. Neither would any former Soviet country, not any country too tied to Beijing or the US. That leaves few left on the sidelines without any interest either way.

Xi and the CCP are making too much money from Russia in this invasion to really want it to end. They are not disinterested.

China CLEARLY benefits from Ukraine war, LOVE seeing global inflation cancer damage markets, financial systems and VOTERS. Latest China consumer inflation less than 1% and no growing banking/financial instability crisis there!

They also shine LOTS of light on this US NATO war machine as it relates to expanding their global south influence, OPEC and others, not to mention FAR greater economic growth, approx. 3-4x G-7 for 2023 with MUCH less debt buildup by way of comparison.

China's also getting real boost to its military and space capabilities, tech. and weapons proliferation from Russia, no R&D time or cost needed!

Zero-Sum game of geopolitical global power, China's taking share, Xi just has to 'act concerned', that's his soft power in action, big Pooh Bear, he's REAL China FIDUCIARY, must be nice!

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

As Fox News notes, Does America even want to be a superpower anymore?

-10 ( +1 / -11 )

Putin's incompetence has resulted in the loss of over half of Russia's most modern armor, and over half of its trained troops. Of course he wants to "negotiate."

6 ( +10 / -4 )

As Fox News notes, Does America even want to be a superpower anymore?

World gets to decide, so if unknown people are pursuing unknown agendas with known and likely unknown corruption, that's just NOT very attractive/credible/trustworthy, is it?!

Meanwhile, Xi's playing game of Master Class Chess with all his NEW CHESS PIECES!!!

-9 ( +0 / -9 )

Xi knows that he has a chance to acquire a vast wealth of Russian natural resources, and making buddies with Putin might help facilitate that effort.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Xi knows that he has a chance to acquire a vast wealth of Russian natural resources, and making buddies with Putin might help facilitate that effort.

Yes, but it's WAY better, Xi gets to watch US, NATO, G-7 self-destruct and destroy their global goodwill, due to allowing unknown corrupt people to in secret seize control and push world to MOST dangerous brink in human history.

Most across world KNOW well US destabilization forces, whether economic, military, cultural, etc. Current wave utilizing Ukraine proxy simply NEXT LEVEL DANGEROUS!

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

That's great and all, but as I'm sure Zelenskyy told Xi, Russia has to accept massive armament of Ukraine for the foreseeable future to deter further criminality.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

China has nothing against Ukraine or the Ukrainians but China is against NATO or Ukraine joining that organisation.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

China will get Ukraine's resources, whether Ukraine is still in charge there or whether Russia manages to hold on to what she has recently attempted to annex.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Perhaps after seeing the Russian army's dismal performance, Xi has sudddenly understood that things might now be going Ukraine's way, and it might actually be better to keep them sweet too.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

China looks at what each side could realistically obtain militarily, and suggests negotiations should start with those as settled matters, and everything else up for discussion.

So basically pushes the underdog to surrender. Real honorable behavior from China.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

TaiwanIsNotChinaToday  11:35 am JST

That's great and all, but as I'm sure Zelenskyy told Xi, Russia has to accept massive armament of Ukraine for the foreseeable future to deter further criminality.

Afraid Xi might not take Zelensky so seriously given war profiteering corruption intel implicating him. Ukraine needs new leadership, that's FIDUCIARY.

No NATO means Neutral, Many NATO Members openly oppose Ukraine Membership, Turkey and Hungary for starters, and many MORE do so privately due to their electorate 'concerns'/opposition.

Neutral counties do not need massive armament, especially failing states. Priority will be restoring Peace and Prosperity with ALL neighbors, not WAR.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

China will get Ukraine's resources, whether Ukraine is still in charge there or whether Russia manages to hold on to what she has recently attempted to annex.

1) Not all of Ukraine's resources are in the Donbas. 2) You don't think the EU will be the main business partner when Russia's war is ended?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

China has nothing against Ukraine or the Ukrainians but China is against NATO or Ukraine joining that organisation.

Russia has no say in that now and China has even less say.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

I welcome Chine applying their 12 point peace plan to this situation:

1. Respecting the sovereignty of all countries. 

OK. Russia stops fighting and pulls all their troops out of Ukraine.

Done.

That was easy.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

No NATO means Neutral, Many NATO Members openly oppose Ukraine Membership, Turkey and Hungary for starters, and many MORE do so privately due to their electorate 'concerns'/opposition.

Neutral counties do not need massive armament, especially failing states. Priority will be restoring Peace and Prosperity with ALL neighbors, not WAR.

Sounds like a Russian fantasy program. Hungary and Turkey are on the way out. Armament can happen without their approval. Ukraine MIGHT have remained neutral before the war but now that Russia put all of its cards on the table and went full barbarian, not a chance.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Meanwhile, Xi's playing game of Master Class Chess with all his NEW CHESS PIECES!!!

And Russia is the sole chess piece. It has no say as an independent country anymore.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Sounds like a Russian fantasy program. Hungary and Turkey are on the way out. Armament can happen without their approval.

There you go, EXISTING NATO Members on the way out, that's democratic, eh?!

NATO unanimity on Membership's no longer matters!

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

President Xi was clear as were many other world leaders, no strategic or military reason for NATO to border Russia in Ukraine, simply dangerous escalation that serves no peaceful defensive purpose.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

When you have two boxers in the ring, there is need for a referee. One of the roles of a referee is to determine when one fighter's health will be endangered by more blows, and thus, stops the fight. 

Fighters each go home safe in a fight. Who will be sending Russia home? Who will be ensuring Ukraine's safety?

Putting aside who is really winning for a moment, we see that Xi taking initiative to call Zelenskyy and Zelenskyy's willingness to have dialogue signal we are closer to a round where the fight needs to be stopped. 

A dialog with China. You have no proof Zelenskyy wants to have a dialog with Putin before removing some more terrorists from his territory.

Judging by the Shanghai Communique in 1972 with Nixon, Kissinger, Zhou and Mao, it is clear which side was winning and which side was going to lose. If you were winning, you would not give up so much, as much as all your military personell and bases in Taiwan. If you were losing, you no doubt would have to make concessions, including recognizing the One China policy and kicking Taiwan out of the UN. That said, it was brokered with gains on both sides leading to the Paris Agreement Treaty in 1973.

Not going to deny reestablishing relations was a mistake, but to say it wasn't also allowing China in the WTO and massive outsourcing weren't also factors. Also China needs 3x more GDP before it can declare victory. 

We will soon know who is actually winning or losing in the Ukraine War by the peace plan or terms of the cease fire China brokers.

China's not going to broker anything unless it tells Russia to return territory and/or accept an armed Ukraine. We'll see if China agrees to do that.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

There you go, EXISTING NATO Members on the way out, that's democratic, eh?!

NATO unanimity on Membership's no longer matters!

Unanimity among 31 members isn't workable tbh. Also no one doubts that Hungary and Turkey have failed in their obligations to maintain democracy and human rights.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

We'll see, we all agree about that, but Ukraine will not be a future TROJAN proxy war horse, that much we know.

Ukraine likely will need NEW leadership ASAP too!

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

President Xi was clear as were many other world leaders, no strategic or military reason for NATO to border Russia in Ukraine, simply dangerous escalation that serves no peaceful defensive purpose.

NATO bordered Russia in 2004. There is much more border now thanks to Putin. Keep pushing it and Belarus will be the final NATO member. Also, 11 posts man. Pace yourself as there is much more war to come.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Clay

President Xi was clear as were many other world leaders, no strategic or military reason for NATO to border Russia in Ukraine, simply dangerous escalation that serves no peaceful defensive purpose.

What about Finland? It has a massive border with Russia?

The military reason is that Putin constantly invades neighbouring countries with the aim of controlling them. That's a pretty sound military reason for Ukraine to join NATO.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

We'll see, we all agree about that, but Ukraine will not be a future TROJAN proxy war horse, that much we know.

You're right, it will be a massive open stockpile of missiles, tanks, planes, and trained troops.

Ukraine likely will need NEW leadership ASAP too!

Only if there is an assassination in which case be prepared for an even more anti-Russian president.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

So basically pushes the underdog to surrender. Real honorable behavior from China.

Or spare miserable dog from its owner's incompetence?

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

The powers-that-be don’t want the war to end, countless billions are being made off the lives of those being killed.

Doubtless Putin and his loyal oligarchs are making money hand over fist from this, and Putin has increased his power over ordinary Russians to the point that voicing a different opinion from the official line gets you imprisoned or drafted. Putin's personal fortune is no doubt skyrocketing with kickbacks from his arms industry that has been put into overdrive.

So yes the Russian powers that be want this war to continue for as long as possible, they do not care how many Russians die for their fortunes to increase. And it is Russia that continues this war as it is the only one that can end it immediately if it chooses to. For Ukraine, it has no power to end the war and still continue as a sovereign nation. So the pain of this drawn out war is all on Russia, as is the length of the war that only Russia can end.

Be careful Ukraine using Russia's closest ally as mediator is fraught with danger and lies. Ukraine will continue to demand all of its territory be returned and just how China will manage to coax Russia out of Ukraine is yet to be determined. Perhaps by trying to cut western Europe out of the rebuilding of Ukraine and using only Russian and Chinese companies for the extensive decades long rebuilding. Russia will want to hold onto as much of Ukraine as possible but that is the problem for China to work out, just how to prize Russian fingers from the Ukraine pie.

Then there is the question of Russian reactions to Ukraine becoming a member of NATO. Another thing China needs to get Russia to accept that inevitable move.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Many Ukrainians remember well Russians fighting and dying against Nazi on their behalf in Ukraine after all!

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

If China is able to come up with a plan that recognizes Ukraine's 2013 borders and induces Russia to pay reparations and hand over their war criminals, then I think we should hear them out. Otherwise, no need.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

If you really want to know what is going on over there, there are some youtubers that do daily updates and analyses that seem much more fact based than anything you will see in Western media.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Divide and conquer. Any shift of China away from Russia will weaken Putins position. Good thing.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Wouldnt trust Xi as far as I could throw him, but if he could pull off a peace deal and stop the violence he would have everyone's attention. You don't hate a guy just because you hate what he represents. You judge a man on his actions and the consequences of those actions.

If he can do it, we will all step back and applaud. Xi the peacemaker, let's see.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Or spare miserable dog from its owner's incompetence?

But they aren't sparing Russia :) They are letting them grind on.

Many Ukrainians remember well Russians fighting and dying against Nazi on their behalf in Ukraine after all!

Many Ukrainians remember the destruction wasn't as bad under German Nazis compared to Russian Nazis.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

China still refuses to denounce Russia's invasion since they plan to invade Taiwan themselves

So how does Ukraine trust China?

Perhaps not so much about trust as opposed to leverage: who can persuade Russia to return territory. Russia has to have something in return for returning Ukraine territory.

It's an NBA 3 team trade. Sometimes 2 teams can't make it happen but a 3rd team comes along and all of a sudden there is something in it for all parties.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

RodneyToday 08:56 am JST

China seems like the only country the world can trust.

An unrealistic claim full of falsehood. The vast majority of the educated world have zero trust in the CCP or its system of government. Only the uneducated may be fooled into trusting such an inherently untrustworthy country.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

This is really some pathetic, sick, JOKE....right ?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

quercetum

China still refuses to denounce Russia's invasion since they plan to invade Taiwan themselves

So how does Ukraine trust China?

Perhaps not so much about trust as opposed to leverage: who can persuade Russia to return territory. Russia has to have something in return for returning Ukraine territory.

Why?

0 ( +3 / -3 )

I'm no China fan, but hey, somebody's got to do this.

We certainly can't rely on that doddering geriatric patient in Washington DC to do it.

He's largely responsible for allowing this mess to occur in the first place.

His comment that he'd be okay with a "minor incursion" (his words) by Russia into Ukraine? He might as well have rolled out a red carpet for Putin all the way to Kyiv.

The USA should have played the lead role in keeping this invasion from even happening in the first place. Like it did during the previous presidential administration.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

who can persuade Russia to return territory. Russia has to have something in return for returning Ukraine territory.

I like where you are going with this, quercetum. Maybe there is another country that wouldn't mind giving up some land to Russia for peace.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

UChosePoorly

who can persuade Russia to return territory. Russia has to have something in return for returning Ukraine territory.

I like where you are going with this, quercetum. Maybe there is another country that wouldn't mind giving up some land to Russia for peace.

Right! I'm sure there is some contested lands between China and Russia, that China could give Russia in return for Russia returning Ukrainian territory.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Based

I'm no China fan, but hey, somebody's got to do this.

We certainly can't rely on that doddering geriatric patient in Washington DC to do it.

He's largely responsible for allowing this mess to occur in the first place.

Trump lives in Florida these days.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Perhaps not so much about trust as opposed to leverage: who can persuade Russia to return territory. Russia has to have something in return for returning Ukraine territory. 

It can have the ability to be a respectable country without unacknowledged territory and a Ukraine that wants to see it dead until the sun explodes.

It's an NBA 3 team trade. Sometimes 2 teams can't make it happen but a 3rd team comes along and all of a sudden there is something in it for all parties.

The US won't give Russia ice. Not under Biden at least. Maybe under surrender 45 but then the US has worse problems.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

President Xi was clear as were many other world leaders, no strategic or military reason for NATO to border Russia in Ukraine, simply dangerous escalation that serves no peaceful defensive purpose.

What about Finland? It has a massive border with Russia?

The military reason is that Putin constantly invades neighbouring countries with the aim of controlling them. That's a pretty sound military reason for Ukraine to join NATO.

Great question, key difference, Finland's mature stable democracy not subject to outside political interference and control like our good friends in Ukraine.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Norways's peaceful Nato member too, but we're outsiders to seize control of their Government and arm the country to the hilt, that wouldn't be good either!

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

I'm no China fan, but hey, somebody's got to do this.

Do what? Surrender? That is all Donald was ever good at. Hasn't won anything in his life.

We certainly can't rely on that doddering geriatric patient in Washington DC to do it. 

You're right, Biden won't surrender.

He's largely responsible for allowing this mess to occur in the first place. 

His comment that he'd be okay with a "minor incursion" (his words) by Russia into Ukraine? He might as well have rolled out a red carpet for Putin all the way to Kyiv.

The USA should have played the lead role in keeping this invasion from even happening in the first place. Like it did during the previous presidential administration.

What's even more aiding of Russia than this is "I have Putin, he said it it's not Russia."

1 ( +2 / -1 )

This is about the present not the past, as we all want to AVOID GLOBAL WAR!

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Great question, key difference, Finland's mature stable democracy not subject to outside political interference and control like our good friends in Ukraine.

That makes no sense. Warcriminal Putin wants to snuff out Ukraine so it can have no democracy. I think you need to think through your excuses better.

Norways's peaceful Nato member too, but we're outsiders to seize control of their Government and arm the country to the hilt, that wouldn't be good either!

Russia military has been extremely pathetic, but Javelins and training were not a threat to Russia in 2021.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

This is about the present not the past, as we all want to AVOID GLOBAL WAR!

Not at the expense of appeasing a thief, no.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Your ideals no NO LIMITS then!

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Your ideals no NO LIMITS then!

Now you see the problem with using war to get things. Putin isn't the only tough guy.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

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